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Post by Alex ST on Jun 19, 2016 19:22:26 GMT -5
I wanted to discuss some different ways we can handle game mechanics. For the sake of organization I'm going to start a different thread on each mechanic so the discussion can stay focused.
L5r is an inherently lethal game. This threat is part of what makes it l5r. At the same time, character death for its own sake is not fun for many players, particularly when it's a character they've invested a lot of time and emotion into (and often financially as well for props and costumes). While lethality can be controlled by a GM in tabletop, it's a lot harder to do in a larp that involves large numbers of players and PVP. To that end, I had some ideas about ways to modify lethality for the larp that I wanted to bring up for discussion.
Option 1: Avoiding Death - In this version whenever a character would take enough wounds to die but might potentially survive - for example: wounds from mass battle, a skirmish, buried in a landslide, fell off a ship into a stormy sea - they make an Earth roll against a low TN but with a penalty for each Physical Disadvantage they have. If they pass their character survives after the encounter - is pulled to safety by an ally, a shugenja reaches you in time to heal you, rescuers dig you out, you cling to a piece of driftwood and wash to shore - but gain a permanent Disadvantage appropriate to whatever would have killed you (i.e. Missing Limb, Blind, Bad Health, Disturbing Countenance, etc.). This gives characters some increased survivability but also creates consequences for death. It does not apply for voluntary deaths (i.e. seppuku) or unavoidable deaths (i.e. engaging in a lethal duel).
Option 2: Rewarding Death - In this version whenever a character dies they get a reward of some kind. Obviously this includes kharmic XP (and in my opinion this should be very high, nearly equal to the original character or it becomes impossible for anyone to compete with established characters) but I was going more towards restricted character options (though this depends on how we handle restrictions). A good one, IMHO, is a free Heart of Vengeance to anyone whose PC was killed in PVP.
Other thoughts?
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Post by Resler ST on Jun 20, 2016 9:40:08 GMT -5
I like both options to be honest. I have seen both work wonderfully. How about something along the lines of using Option 1 as a default and then using Option 2 for critically difficult mods (giving the players forewarning before the no-turn back period) and any form of PvP (not the mass battle table, but duels and heroic opportunities).
Also a small recommendation for the death reward, how about a free touch of the spirit realms advantage on top of whatever else we decide to give them? Depending on what realm their previous character went to would be the touch of the spirit realms advantage that they get.
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Post by travislerol on Jun 20, 2016 13:02:15 GMT -5
I think a player choosing death is generally desirable, and some sort of blended solution here would be pretty cool. Reducing lethality via option 1 and also providing heart of vengeance would be kind of nice.
Mostly, I don't want people to feel like they died just because the card came up wrong. In the colonies game, mass combat kills...lots of people, and sometimes not in very interesting ways. I want to spread that lethality out and in skirmishes, have it much less likely that, say, a person dies before they have any chance to act. Maybe some kind of Emma-O scene or something for players who die? Playing a lethal game requires making it fairly painless to reroll, I think. Otherwise, you're going to get player attrition.
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Post by Alex ST on Jun 20, 2016 19:24:20 GMT -5
It sounds like a mix is the best option. I definitely think we should find ways to get people to embrace death (it is a samurai tragedy game, after all). A good way to do that beyond mechanics is to allow people more control over the manner of their death. I.e. in mass battle if someone dies from battle table damage allowing them to narrate the death scene but also allowing them to accomplish some big last action.
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Post by travislerol on Jun 21, 2016 10:26:08 GMT -5
Yeah, some glorious "final words/action" has always struck me as suitably dramatic. One final round, free of wound penalties or whatever, go!
This may also make PCs *slightly* less likely to murder each other outright. =)
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Post by Alex ST on Jun 21, 2016 12:26:23 GMT -5
One final round, free of wound penalties or whatever, go! That also allows the battle equivalent of a final strike: two warriors go at it until both fall. Although one is victorious she later succumbs to her wounds and joins her enemy in death. |
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Post by travislerol on Jun 21, 2016 15:50:35 GMT -5
Yup! Very appropriate to L5R, I think.
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Post by timcoltharp on Jul 5, 2016 22:27:54 GMT -5
I like Travis's idea of final round.
What is your thoughts on a choice between a final round and realistic saves from death like what Alex suggested?
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Post by travislerol on Jul 6, 2016 14:10:26 GMT -5
If a player has to choose between "save vs death" and "one round", they are highly likely to always choose the former.
In general, I'd rather players not be forced to choose between the mechanically sound choice and the awesome RP option.
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Post by Charles ST on Aug 11, 2016 19:35:54 GMT -5
I'm all for giving Kharmic XP, though admittedly I'd like a complex formula based on the PC's honor and glory. I'm not really all for chances to avoid death. Why? Because when people are afraid of dying, they'll find more creative ways to achieve their goals than violence. When a courtier can get a lucky swing at a bushi and cut through most of his health levels, that Bushi will think twice about randomly drawing his weapon on someone in court.
I've experienced a similar problem our MES Vampire LARP. Many players don't like RPing Frenzy because it interrupts the flow of a game. But the fact that a vampire can frenzy is supposed to be terrifying, because that neonate you're rude too may be strong enough to bite your head off. It's the entire reason the Invictus are big on 'Polite Society'. But that concept is undermined in our game because of artificial damage caps. The neonate CAN'T bite your head off, because the staff has placed limits on how much damage PC's can do in a round.
If people want to be able to survive a killing blow in battle, let them take great destiny (or dark fate). That's what it's there for. They at that point can get their once more shot, or famous last words. Will a lot of people take it? Likely. But that's fine, but then you have a bunch of people who are taking risks (or being reckless) not because we as ST's gave them the means too, but because it's something informed by their choice as a player. And I honestly don't think Great destiny is as great as it looks. It buys you a round. If you don't kill your opponent in that round, you probably will die.
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Post by Alex ST on Aug 12, 2016 1:07:17 GMT -5
I'm generally against anything described as a "complex formula." I'm also against basing even a simple formula on honor or glory because all of a sudden you're telling me that if my Scorpion agent who did a damn good job not drawing attention to all the dastardly things he was doing on behalf of the clan bites it in the field, I get screwed over again by the kharmic XP rule. Low honor characters should be viable in Rokugan too.
As for making the game less lethal, while samurai are supposed to be brave and unafraid of death, players are reluctant to casually throw away characters they've become attached to. I agree that a less lethal Rokugan is not in spirit of the setting, but it makes a better game because players are more willing to risk their characters. Death should sting (hence tying the Earth roll to Disadvantages) and it shouldn't be usable forever (hence why the penalties stack) but it makes the game a lot more playable.
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Post by Charles ST on Aug 12, 2016 4:46:31 GMT -5
I'm generally against anything described as a "complex formula." I'm also against basing even a simple formula on honor or glory because all of a sudden you're telling me that if my Scorpion agent who did a damn good job not drawing attention to all the dastardly things he was doing on behalf of the clan bites it in the field, I get screwed over again by the kharmic XP rule. Low honor characters should be viable in Rokugan too. Point. One of the rules I added in the Advantages/Disadvantage section is that to get XP benefits from them, you must put your life or honor on the line. That, and Advantages like Great Destiny should push people to take more risks. Also, risky behavior will generally yield more rewards. In a setting where living/surviving is not necessarily a win condition, the person who plays it safe all of the time will have less honor/glory/etc. |
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