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Post by Jim ST on Jun 26, 2016 13:50:22 GMT -5
Instead of banning low honor, maybe set the schedule for who gets to do Maps when in a Highest-to-Lowest Honor order?
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Post by travislerol on Jun 27, 2016 17:37:41 GMT -5
That should be doable...and provided the option to defer to a later movement is allowed, makes having more honor a pretty straightforward benefit.
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Post by Charles ST on Jun 28, 2016 9:31:42 GMT -5
Should that be clearly stated in our handbook, or is that something players should figure out for themselves?
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Post by travislerol on Jun 28, 2016 11:03:55 GMT -5
I like the idea of it being established up front. It makes the choice to play certain clans and schools harder, and encourages things like "the honorable scorpion" acting as the face that are totally appropriate.
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Post by Alex ST on Jun 28, 2016 11:10:31 GMT -5
Is there a reason we're doing this based on Honor rather than Glory? This is an open decision based on a public face, whereas Honor is an internal measure.
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Post by Charles ST on Jun 28, 2016 11:28:41 GMT -5
I think there's a concern that Honor doesn't matter enough, and there's a push to fix that. I'm still in the camp that we make it matter by enforcing the elements of the system that make it matter (fear checks, defense in social draws, honor rolls, etc.). Also, addressing the system so that we're not using static numbers makes honor as an addition to any roll infinitely more useful.
Honor will matter, especially if we're heavily going to be using Maho and things like that. It'll matter. I don't think we have to force it to matter by making a deal of it for the map game, or resource game.
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Post by travislerol on Jun 28, 2016 11:34:37 GMT -5
Yeah, that's the perception, I think. I don't mind having both honor and glory play some role in the map game as well as the more traditional aspects, I just want any such discriminator to be fairly soft. Nothing that keeps people from engaging with part of the game entirely, more of a fringe bennie.
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Post by Alex ST on Jun 28, 2016 11:51:17 GMT -5
I think if we're using fear more often and we publicize Honor Rolls then Honor will become important on its own. And again, if we really need to incentivize Honor then I'll again issue the call for something like The Emperor's Blessing. Generally it's Glory that I find doesn't matter in games.
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Post by timcoltharp on Jul 7, 2016 16:50:20 GMT -5
Long ago, I thought of easy guideline for players and STs follow how the byzantine rule structure for honor. Since it came up, here it is.
Duty to your Lord:
Loyalty to your Peers:
Compassion to your Lessers:
Minor Sacrifices: 4 points per act minus your Honor Rank
Major Sacrifices: 8 points per act minus your Honor Rank
Fatal or Career Ending Sacrifices: 16 points minus your Honor Rank
Minor Gains doing the Opposite: 4 points per act
Major Gains doing the Opposite: 8 points per act
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Post by travislerol on Jul 12, 2016 7:34:27 GMT -5
Simplifying the honor system is something I'd be okay with. I'd probably suggest tweaking those things a bit, since I think there are other things like "upholding bushido" that may traditionally give honor, yet not fit into that simplified structure, but in principle, it could work, and I do like fewer tables.
Probably should adjust numbers slightly so that honor 10 is possible for the living, though.
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Post by timcoltharp on Jul 12, 2016 11:35:03 GMT -5
Simplifying the honor system is something I'd be okay with. I'd probably suggest tweaking those things a bit, since I think there are other things like "upholding bushido" that may traditionally give honor, yet not fit into that simplified structure, but in principle, it could work, and I do like fewer tables. Probably should adjust numbers slightly so that honor 10 is possible for the living, though. Something more like this: Duty to your Lord. Loyalty to your Peers. Compassion to your Lessers. Minor Sacrifices: 5 points per act minus your Honor Rank Major Sacrifices: 10 points per act minus your Honor Rank Fatal or Career Ending Sacrifices: 20 points minus your Honor Rank (It is possible to live from this sacrifice, what is key that the PC was willing to make it and did sincerely attempt to make it. So for example if a Samurai volunteered to stay behind to slow his Lord's pursuers and he knew it was a sucide mission, that would count as a Fatal Sacrifice. But if some one unexpected else saves them at the last minute, they still get the Honor. Toku confessing to Toturi is example of career ending sacrifice. He knew he had a duty to tell his lord of his orgins and he did it knowing that his status and life were likely at an end. ) Trival Gains from doing the Opposite (aka using skills you should be not be using as a Samurai): 1 point per act Minor Gains from doing the Opposite: 5 points per act Major Gains from doing the Opposite: 10 points per act |
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Post by Alex ST on Jul 12, 2016 14:04:10 GMT -5
One of the biggest problems I have with the Honor table is that it's regarded as an absolute list when it's supposed to be examples. Upholding each of the bushido virtues, or violating them for that matter, should result in gains and losses. That said, given the scale of the game it's probably best to either come up with our own chart that we can publish in the game guide (and you know how much I love charts) or just stick to the one in the book but remind players that it's not an all-inclusive list.
How has the player reporting on Honor and Glory gains and losses worked out in the current game? Are players policing each other well enough?
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Post by timcoltharp on Jul 12, 2016 14:36:36 GMT -5
I personally never reported any Honor losses or gains for two reasons:
1) I was often low or lowish Honor so it was kind of hard to trip over something that cost me honor.
2) I was too lazy to double check in the book, when I did something that I felt could have earned me honor.
So, I used Honor as more a guideline on how my character would behave (like an alignment) than a mechanic to check.
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Post by travislerol on Jul 13, 2016 8:49:50 GMT -5
One of the biggest problems I have with the Honor table is that it's regarded as an absolute list when it's supposed to be examples. Upholding each of the bushido virtues, or violating them for that matter, should result in gains and losses. That said, given the scale of the game it's probably best to either come up with our own chart that we can publish in the game guide (and you know how much I love charts) or just stick to the one in the book but remind players that it's not an all-inclusive list. How has the player reporting on Honor and Glory gains and losses worked out in the current game? Are players policing each other well enough? My impression is that it really isn't for Honor. Almost nobody reports honor gains for others, ever. As in, for entire sessions, I was literally the only one doing that. Conversely, players were extremely eager to report honor and glory losses for people they were in conflict with. I don't think this is particularly intentional. It's just really easy to not notice/care about honor details for another character you're not closely involved with, and conflict brings focus to the negative. I eventually started mostly ignoring honor, as it was fairly unlikely to matter, save for when the STs decided a specific action/ non action would hard-set your honor to zero, thus instantly making you an NPC. So, then you had to do/not do that one thing. I have absolutely no idea how those things were determined, but it seemed to be wildly ad-hoc. |
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Post by Alex ST on Jul 13, 2016 8:53:15 GMT -5
But is that reporting a problem? If people can be trusted to report their own gains and competition causes them to report others' losses, then it should work out.
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